scans_daily | Captain Marvel #8

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From:

gnarll

Scene like this cries out for an artist who is good at facial expressions, especially subtle ones.

From:

hybrid2

I still dont see why they would think the hulk would have started to murder peoples.

Or why Clint was not sentenced in this.

Do the Marvel U really think the Hulk was a murderous monster?

From:

gmm2.livejournal.com

"Do the Marvel U really think the Hulk was a murderous monster?"

That's the exact reason Clint was acquitted.

From:

shakalooloo

Hulk's on the side of cereal boxes in Mark Millar's 'Fantastic Four' run, so presumably he's not a reviled figure in the MU.

From:

thehood

Pretty much. That's always been the story of Banner's life. Even the Hulk is fully heroic, even when Hulk/Banner are on the same page doing good, the public treated him like crap.

Even during Pak's first run, he had Hulk and Banner be very jaded over the fact the public always flip flops over calling him a hero or a monster.

From:

silicondream

Yeah, and when Professor Hulk met Drax the Destroyer in his brain-damaged incarnation, Banner tried to talk Drax out of a confused rampage. It ended up with the media hailing Drax as a hero for protecting everyone from the Hulk.

From:

bruinsfan

At the very least, when Bruce was separated from the Hulk it killed hundreds of innocent people in the Southwest while leveling towns. I also don't buy for a second the BS about Banner subconsciously calculating angles so all the debris from the Hulk's multitude of fights and demolished buildings, aircraft, tanks, etc. never hurt any bystanders. He was a brilliant scientist, not an omniscient clairvoyant/telekinetic.

From:

daningram.insanejournal.com

Am I the only one who's suprised about how civil this 'Civil War' has been?

Overall, there have barely been any punches thrown, just snide remarks about the other.

From:

lordultimus

No, there haven't been many punches.

Just kidnapping, torture, and blowing up factories on American soil.

From:

daningram.insanejournal.com

So your average Monday, basically

From:

bjornwilde

I've been keeping my distance from this crossover, so who's the woman floating in front of Carol's face?

From:

mastermahan

Looks like Aurora from Alpha Flight. And she's apparently going to fight Thor, which promises to be hilarious.

From:

bruinsfan

I can see it being a decent fight, actually. In the past Northstar has thrown a flurry of punches fast enough to hurt Sasquatch, and Thor has fine control of lightning attacks that should be able to target even Aurora.

From:

beyondthefringe

OH MY GOD HULK WILL SLAUGHTER US ALL.

Um, no, isn't it one of the established things about the Hulk that he DOESN'T kill? That somehow, even when he's out of control, when the rage has taken over, he's never purposefully killed anyone? I forget where they mentioned this on the page, but I know there was a thing about how despite everything, the Hulk has never racked up a real body count.

So why are they convinced that THIS time, when he's been CURED, he's going to Hulk out and kill them all?

From:

freezer

Because Ulysses said he would. Kind of.

From:

quatoria

To be fair. Thjis time he was experimenting with some entirely brand new type of gamma effect on his cells. No way of knowing what it would do to him if it did enhance him, like he presumably thought it wuold. No way of knowing how he'd react in that stressful of a situation, with that many people. No way of knowing what the strength level of that hulk would be. Even just trying to escape and be free, like Hulk always wanted, he might have killed somebody. I'm not trying to justify Clint's action, I think it was pretty bullshit. But those factors deserved to be considered, too.

From:

silicondream

Thjis time he was experimenting with some entirely brand new type of gamma effect on his cells.

But that always happens, you know? There's always something new happening with the Hulk that makes his powers and personalities a little different than before. He's green, he's grey, he's smart, he's dumb, he's scaly and guilt-ridden, he's extra-angry, he's got a beard. Happens with lots of other superpeople too; the mutants are always evolving new powers or developing split personalities or getting taken over by demons or whatever. And the other heroes pretty much never respond with "Welp, now we better kill this guy just to be safe." Why would Clint's attitude toward killing completely flip in this one case?

I mean, even the Authority doesn't kill people just because they might suddenly manifest new powers and might be homicidally angry and nearby superheroes might not be able to stop them before they kill someone. This is just wildly out of character for any hero who isn't an ice-cold pragmatist like Vril Dox or John Constantine.

From:

jmacq1

Even Marvel's editorial department doesn't seem to know whether Hulk is a killer or not. I remember a fair bit of hubbub when the "Prelude to Planet Hulk" painted the Hulk as a killer (albeit in a "force of nature" kind of way as opposed to a "deliberate murderer") by mentioning a bunch of people that died in one of his rampages. It was the whole reason the Illuminati launched him into space.

Since then though...it's remained rather unclear.

From:

wizardru

Well, here's the thing: Marvel editorial has never been entirely clear if the Hulk has or has not killed anyone. They have strongly implied that he has on some occasions. Certainly, in Hulk 300 it's nothing short of a miracle (and it's described as such) that he doesn't kill anyone. We don't honestly know if Mr. Fixit murdered anyone...it's an open question, though it seems like Banner wouldn't let him get away with it (but again

Basically, if the Hulk goes full rage machine, he's extremely hard to stop. If he's goes full rage machine after Banner experiments on himself and becomes MORE dangerous? Given Banner's history of changing from smart to savage to evil, it's not an unreasonable fear. If Bruce or Rick ever told anyone about the Maestro, who killed EVERYONE or if enough people heard about Old Man Logan's future, it's not hard to believe people would be edgy.

As for the public in the MU? They have a long history of being terrified of the Hulk. News reports of Gamma-town should be well known (and yes, the Leader killed them, but to get at the Hulk) and then there's stuff like THIS that stick in folk's minds:

From:

freezer

So basically, Carol's entire rationale is one big Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Lovely.

From:

jeyl

And just when her movie is starting to pick up steam too.

From:

deepspaceartist

It gets even better. Carol is leaving to go after a guy who used to be a villain who got his powers from the Beyonder. After barging into his house, almost shooting his dog and ruining his family's day they discover that the thing that transforms him only recently started building energy and was started by an outside source. So it's beginning to look like the "Ulysses' powers somehow cause the disasters he sees" theory might be right and actively Carol is making things worse by using him.

From:

silicondream

Well, if her conservative estimate of thousands of lives saved is accurate, that's certainly a point in favor of her position.

Or at least, it's a point in favor of using Ulysses somehow. Carol and Tony seem to agree by now that:

a) Ulysses's info is often correct, and acting on his information has saved a lot of lives,

b) Ulysses' info is not always correct, and

c) some actions based on Ulysses' info are unacceptable, like Clint's.

So you'd think that they and the other heroes could sit down and hammer out some guidelines for dealing with the visions: how to investigate potential criminals, how to measure predictive error, what preventative actions are or are not acceptable in response, etc.

Instead, it seems like Tony's stuck on "Don't use Ulysses ever" and Carol's stuck on "Violate everybody's civil rights every time Ulysses thinks it might help" and neither of those positions really makes sense.

From:

quatoria

Okay, so - I actually really like Clint and Carol in this one? They both seem pretty in character. And the cover is fucking gorgeous. I would totally buy a print of that.

From:

veleda_k

I think Gage is doing a good job of making Carol sympathetic here. I still don't think she's right, but I feel for her. (I don't think it really makes up for the way she's being written everywhere else, but Gage can't control that.)

From:

sarahnewlin

I don't like Carol's hair. It just doesn't work.

Aurora vs Thor?

From:

silicondream

So, did Clint tell anybody about his anti-Hulk arrow and Bruce's kill-me request before the actual confrontation? That seems like, y'know, important information to have out there.

...they did have an actual strategy meeting beforehand, yes? Where the heroes and S.H.I.E.L.D. representatives discussed how to approach Bruce, and how to respond to signs of a threat, and what combat strategies to use if violence actually broke out? They didn't just text everybody with "party at banner's place in an hour!! btw he might try to kill us so watch out ;)", did they?

From:

coldfury

I'm pretty sure "I have an arrow that specifically was made to *kill Bruce Banner*" isn't the sort of thing you bring up around a lot of the Avengers, even in today's more grim era.

I think he'd play it close to chest, hoping he'd never have to use it, but once that vision hit he probably knew in his gut that 'today was the day he'd have to'.

As far as strategy, knowing these guys, I doubt it was more than a Carol/Steve speech 'fact finding, we're here just in case, but the vision was the worst, so we're going all in, k?'

From:

miss_abnormal

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rhodey die because they were specifically going after Thanos, before Carol and those on her side decided to use Ulysses in the systematic manner they are now? Because if I'm remembering that right, Carol is basically taking advantage of his death for her own means. Rhodey died to save people from Thanos, not for Carol's current strategy and plans.

From:

zylly

Two thoughts...

1) I've come to wonder if, rather than the writers not having a consistent idea for how Ulysses's powers work because of poor editing, it's actually deliberate obfuscation so that they can show something more sinister behind it towards the end of the event.

2) Carol still totally mishandled trying to arrest/investigate Steve Gerber. She's one of the most powerful super-humans on the planet. She could have easily gone there, in civilian clothes, and knocked on the door. "Hi, I'm Colonel Danvers. Do you have a few moments to talk?"

Even if he's a threat, she's thought enough to hold almost anyone off, while you have back-up waiting a few blocks away.

From:

laughing_tree

To play devil's advocate, a few blocks' distance could make a life-or-death difference when lethal superpowers are in play.

From:

zylly

True. But when you're part of multiple teams that include Monica Rambeau and Aurora, you have can more bodies there before you're finished saying "He's attacking."

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Captain Marvel #8

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