espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
One of the tragedies that came about as a result of the DC Reboot, is that we never really got any interaction between Cassandra Cain and her adoptive brother Damian Wayne. In fact, due to the mess of conflicting storylines as the reboot approached and editors kind of stopped caring, so Cass Cain's adoption might not have actually happened, but I digress...

The first time that they managed to, sort of, get seen together was in the Black Canary miniseries (you know, the one where Green Arrow abducts Dinah's adopted daughter and lets her think she's dead for several days before telling her what happened) where representatives of the League of Assassins are discussing how the League has fractured following the death of Ra's al Ghul.


Awkward perspective on Cass's bust is awkward.

Of course, later on it would be retconned that Cass was actually the brainwashed figurehead of her splinter group of the LoA, and that she and it were being controlled by her dad and Deathstroke, so she wasn't really able to meet Damian when he was originally introduced.

Despite this, Damian had actually managed to hear of Cass both through his dad and mum both talking about how awesome she was (albeit for different reasons) and appeared to hold her in somewhat high regard. And considering this was Damian, that's saying a lot.

The fact that Stephanie Brown was the first Batgirl he met was probably for the best though, as although Cass' rigid morality would probably have bashed Damian into a more conventionally heric shape if they had interacted more, Steph's humour and basic ordinary...ness was probably better for Damian as a person in the long run.


Just be thankful that Barbara didn't cave and Misfit become the new Batgirl after Cass went AWOL... that would have gotten UGLY.

Skipping forward a little, we come to Gates of Gotham, a Scott Snyder mini-series that he originally was planning to have Cass star as the main character, but he was told to focus more on the rest of the Bat Family instead (hrrmph). Despite this, I feel that the stories theme of family and family-connections probably benefited from a more balanced starring role for all the then-current Bat Family.

The plot of the miniseries involves a descendant of one of the architects of 19th Century Gotham's greatest landmarks attacking the descendants of the families that he feels betrayed his ancestor. So the Architect begins a bombing campaign against the Kane, Wayne, Cobblepot and Elliot families, purchasing explosives from a source in South East Asia, which is where Cass enters the picture...





I think that the implication here is that Damian is meant to be either shy or kind of awestruck by meeting Cass for the first time, to her bemusement. Either way, he tries to make up for it in the next issue while they're watching the Iceberg Lounge by using Damian Social Interaction Technique No. 1: casually insulting her.





Fed up with the twerp, Cass talks to Tim. Now, I think that there is enough evidence to suggest that Tim and Cass were growing closer together romantically before the DC Reboot, but since that'll take up an entirely different post of its own, here are the two instead having a private conversation about the newest member of their little troupe.



The heroes discover that the Architect has sent a bomb to both the Iceberg Lounge and the Wayne Enterprises building, with the latter also having Thomas Elliot tied to it to attack three of the families at once (he even kidnapped him from Arkham especially!). Damian and Cass swing in, and divide up their roles based on what I think might be an attempt by Damian to impress her...











The next issue, Cass explains why she had to (in Damian's eyes) emasculate him by physically carrying him from the bomb to save his life.



Later, Dick has Cass analyse the foot of the Architect kidnapping Hush to see what her body-reading ability can tell them about the supervillain (see, Snyder read her series so he knows she can do stuff like this, unlike Beechen who didn't so he just writes her as someone who breaks stuff), while Damian whinges to Tim about how much he thinks Cass sucks.





The investigation continues, and Tim ends up having to sit most of it out after the Architect beat him up with his Victorian mechsuit. Later on, his endgame begins, where the Architect tries to blow up the last bridge his ancestor was commissioned to build, with some submerged explosives. While Dick keeps him distracted by fighting him head-on, Cass and Damian go to sort out the bomb themselves.







Not 100% sure that submerged explosives like that would be able to destroy the bridge due to the water being in the way, but what do I know.

Anyways, Damian listening to what Cass has to say allows them to save the day, but unfortunately they don't spend any more time together on-panel beyond the implication that Damian got over himself and accepted that she actually deserved to be there... and kind of lives up to the hype he'd been hearing.

And thus Cass' last, non-Batman Inc appear in the DCU is her meeting up with the injured Tim Drake, in a page that obviously has no implications whatsoever, especially considering the aforementioned romantic implications that had been growing between the two following her debrainwashing...


More on the possible Cass/Tim relationship later.

Ending on a sad note though, it is kind of tragic that considering the simularities that Cass and Damian shared in terms of their backgrounds they didn't get to interact more. Damian was essentially Cass' brother, and the fact that they didn't get to interact more before he died... is actually really sad.

Date: 2013-07-17 06:28 pm (UTC)
rainspirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rainspirit
I still don't see the romantic implications there. Is it really a good idea to take someone to bed with a concussion?

Date: 2013-07-17 07:19 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
it;s smexing!

Date: 2013-07-18 02:31 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (casssexxy)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
Not just any smexing. BATCESTUAL smexing.

Date: 2013-07-17 07:47 pm (UTC)
yvonmukluk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yvonmukluk
You know, as I recall there was a running joke around the web that if Tim Drake ever lost his virginity, the DC Universe would end.

As I recall, Gates of Gotham ended around the same time as Flashpoint, didn't it?

Just saying.

Date: 2013-07-17 09:47 pm (UTC)
chrisdv: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
YEAH! You were supposed to text BART when you got laid, not BARRY.

...I guess it was kinda inevitable when he had them both in his phone's contact list as Bartholomew Allen.

Date: 2013-07-17 11:04 pm (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I think it's hilarious that when Jim Lee took over as publisher, Asian characters started disappearing.

This is the dude who once TURNED SOMEONE ASIAN.

Date: 2013-07-18 12:21 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I'm pretty sure it was just one reason: to make Media Darling Batwoman the One True Lady-Bat.

But I'm very cynical.

(I love Batwoman I am not dissing the character just soulless corporate moves impacting stories please nobody hate me)

Date: 2013-07-18 07:05 am (UTC)
maxisanacorn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maxisanacorn
I think it's more the one-true Batgirl Babs they wanted. She matches the sneakers and sheets they sell now. It's all marketing.

Date: 2013-07-19 04:17 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
I was actually referring to One Year Later.

Getting rid of Cass and Steph *this* time was certainly a "make there only be one Batgirl" thing. Hilariously, they kept four Robins.

Date: 2013-07-18 01:25 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, I think they missed you don't get points for diversity if the amount of diversity doesn't [i]rise[/i].

Date: 2013-07-18 05:23 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
They were the ones who kept delaying it, after all.

Date: 2013-07-17 09:06 pm (UTC)
zechs80: (Mayuri)
From: [personal profile] zechs80
A WEEK just before Flashpoint rebooted the entire universe too.

Date: 2013-07-17 08:11 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
I don't know. I mean I don't know what Snyder/Higgins had planned but I've never seen Cass/Tim in any romantic/sexual sense (not even going into Tim's sorta-kinda asexuality). It just seems....off. They always gave off sibling vibes to me (even more so than Cass/Dick).

I do agree about missing Cass/Damien interaction (and I would have loved to see Snyder writing a Black Bat book or fully incorporate her into the Bat-Family dynamics as he probably intended - if you think about Bruce and Cass have still not interacted once since he "died" and came back). Cass and Damien are quite similar and Beechan aside (and we must put him aside I hate even the idea of mentioning Cass lead the League of Assassins it so off-target for her) Cass/Damien would have introduced a different perspective to his life than his relationships with Bruce, his sorta protege relationship with Dick and his adversarial relationships with both Tim and Jason. Cass knows the kind of brainwashing (or however you want to term it) that comes with being raised to be a literal weapon,

One of the reasons that my headcanon pretty much puts aside all things Beechan is because without that "rigid morality" of hers throughout her run is pretty consistent without it. Her insistence that her upbringing does not determine who she is, that she does not have "to be" her father (or mother), that people can change, that "no one dies tonight" on her watch and the ideal of the Bat is supreme (to the point she was content with Batgirl 24/7) are all things that would have made interaction with Damien quite a contrast.

Not to mention the fact that of all Batman's protegees, Cass and Damien are the only ones who truly wanted to BE Batman when Bruce had passed or retired and said so (I'm still annoyed that Batman!Cass was never considered as a possibility in the "Battle for the Cowl" but Gatt-man/Crazy Jason was).

"Awkward perspective on Cass's bust is awkward."
Generally speaking I can always guess how unfamiliar an artist is with Cassandra by how large they make her bust (or how tall she is, she's supposed to be short, no?).

Date: 2013-07-17 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
Same. The idea of Cass and Tim hooking up just feels too incestuous for me to entertain.

If she remained solely Barbara's protege rather than Bruce's as well, I might feel differently cause that would at least give the same degree of separation with the Bat-family tree as Dick + Babs, Dick + Helena, Tim + Steph.
Edited Date: 2013-07-17 09:45 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-17 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
All the same, Bruce still ended up becoming the 2nd most significant surrogate (and almost actual) parent to her in the same way he did for Tim, which I feel like bonds them as siblings and that how all their prior interactions with each other were shaded as to me.
Edited Date: 2013-07-17 10:51 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-17 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
I'm not saying it doesn't work canonically or that it's never been a possibility until GoG, just that I think it feels squicky and awkward to me despite all of that.
Edited Date: 2013-07-17 11:02 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-18 01:29 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-
To the point where Cass' co-creator even made an Elseworldsy thing where the two are both a couple and a crimefighting duo in Gotham's near future (with Tim trying to find the right moment to propose).-

???

!

Date: 2013-07-18 05:17 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
You know, I think I even own that story, I'd just forgotten about it, and I hadn't seen the quote from Damion, so thanks! :D

Date: 2013-07-18 02:34 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
Almost actual? Didn't Bruce officially adopt Cass?

Date: 2013-07-18 02:59 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] omgwtflolbbqbye
After Bruce 'died' she told Stephanie that the adoption process got stalled.

And then after he came back the issue was never brought up again as far as I remember.
Edited Date: 2013-07-18 02:59 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-18 06:56 pm (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
Not only never brought up. Bruce never even shared a panel with Cass post-return (and obviously wit the reboot to this day). The only time he even mentioned her is the passing aside (or author's saving throw, however you see it) that the reason she ditched the Batgirl legacy and costume so quickly to Stephanie was on his orders.

Date: 2013-07-18 12:14 am (UTC)
kurenai_tenka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kurenai_tenka
Agreeing too. Unless I'm very much mistaken they're legally siblings at this point, and that DEFINITELY feels incestuous to me.

Date: 2013-07-18 01:28 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Cass/Tim had a bit of awkwardness to them that I think made them a bit less sibling-y, and they did have a bit of a yin/yang, Cass being a very physical Bat to Tim's very mental. Not that I can't see your side, but Dick struck me as more sibling-ish than either (Dick's a great big bro all around).


On the bust- yes.

Date: 2013-07-18 03:46 am (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
D'aww they are so sweet together at the end.

Date: 2013-07-18 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
Funny how Dick chose to go fight the Architect himself while sending Cass, who is the best martial artist in the world and can probably beat the crap out of the entire Bat family but has very little experience with explosives, to disarm the bombs.

Date: 2013-07-20 02:59 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
Cass may have been taught to use bombs but the first time she ever disarmed one was in her ongoing series, #23.

Date: 2013-07-19 11:10 pm (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
Wait, I thought Richard Dragon was the best martial artist in the world? Or Karate Kid (although to be fair he is from the future)?

Date: 2013-07-18 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
"Not 100% sure that submerged explosives like that would be able to destroy the bridge due to the water being in the way, but what do I know."

I have a friend who would insist, loudly, that flaming explosions in space would be bigger then on earth, because there wouldn't be all the oxygen in the way.

I'll leave you to ponder that.

Date: 2013-07-20 08:21 am (UTC)
endis_ni: (Default)
From: [personal profile] endis_ni
...that hurt me. In the Science gland.

Date: 2013-07-20 09:15 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
yes, that was pretty much my reaction as well.

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