scans_daily | Batgirl 21 has another Nightwing cameo

icon_uk posting in

A page and bit from Newsarama's preview of Batgirl 21

It's a nice action sequence, as Dick radios Babs, who is having a crisis of confidence because of... well, everything happening in her title I suppose, with the fall out of the Death of the Family, her apparent killing of her own brother, and the new Ventriloquist proving to be a major problem.

It also includes a nice exchange as we see that whilst calling to make sure Babs is okay, Dick is in the middle of interrupting a gang ambushing some police.

"Chick"? I have to assume you're talking down to the gangbanger there Dick, or else trying to get a reaction from Babs.

Of course, I've always felt Dick should have had SOME ballet training. To train for balance, poise and control, and to meet girls too of course... and my feeling that ballet dancer Roberto Bolle would have made a a fabulous Dick Grayson in his day (Though in fairness he's only 38 now but doesn't come close to looking it) never hurt. See Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C and Exhibit D for those interested in seeing why but not wanting to disturb this preview too much...)

Another page just for the pretty...

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From:

protogarrett

I agree. She shouldn't be the bat anymore.

...Because the previous two Batgirls did it better and the Batwoman has that shit all tied up.

From:

ablackraptor

Maybe Gail's subtly trying to work in a way to turn her back into Oracle? Well, I can dream that much.

From:

mastermahan

I would be perfectly fine with that. Barbara Gordon as Batgirl was basically a footnote. Barbara Gordon as Oracle was one of the key players in the DCU. Oracle was just more effective.

From:

espanolbot

This is true. Babs returning to being Batgirl after being Oracle is like a successful head of a police department deciding to pack it in to start giving out parking tickets. Both are important, but deliberately going backwards from one to the other is a waste of their talents.

From:

twospirit.blogspot.com

Many moons ago, I was a dancer and I would agree: the men that dance are lithe and graceful and gorgeous. I always imagined Dick as more of that graceful fluidity than the hardcore athleticism of acrobatics.

(Thank you for posting the pics of Roberto Bolle...wow. Just wow....he would have made an amazing Nightwing, at least in the visual department.)

From:

damar148

This. Hell, she's propably been longer Oracle than Batgirl, for which she's too old like in her mid-20's.

From:

ar_feiniel

Wasn't she originally in her mid twenties as Batgirl though? I remember Pre-Crisis Batgirl did a stint in Congress and you got to be at least 25 for that.

From:

icon_uk

Yes, Pre-Crisis she was a college graduate and was working as a Librarian before she became Batgirl, and whilst Dick was still in high school.

Over the years, they adjusted her age down as she and Dick got closer though she was always older than he was. Now since the DCnU I think they're the same age, but ironically I see absolutely nothing to suggest they would ever be a viable couple.

From:

junipepper

She was over 20, but IIRC she wasn't 25, and they had to pass a special law for her to serve. ('Cause yeah, that's plausible...) I have a vague memory of being really, really irritated about the whole thing.

From:

glaurung

The "Special Law" thing was a post-Crisis retcon, after they decided she was younger but before they jettisoned her stint in Congress.

Originally, she was an adult with a PhD (presumably in library science) and a job *before* she started her crime fighting career.

From:

junipepper

Oh, okay. Thanks.

From:

icon_uk

Has she a PhD? I don't remember her ever being referred to as Dr Gordon.

From:

glaurung

Thought balloon on page 2 of Detective 359, "the million dollar debut of Batgirl":

"I made my PhD at Gotham State University! I graduated Summa Cum Laude! I wear a brown belt at judo! But tonight will be the highlight of my life!"

From:

icon_uk

Thanks for that! :)

From:

bariman

She also has/had a Master's Degree in Law from Harvard. Which she got in her spare time, because she was bored. (I still find that hilarious.)

From:

midnightvoyager

I was once a ballerina. I have seen the feet of hardcore ballerinas. Hard as rocks.

Ballerinas ARE badass. Those legs are NOT something you wanna get kicked by!

From:

lieut_kettch

I remember a Black Widow miniseries where someone was able to see through Natahsa's cover story as a ballerina because her feet didn't look abused enough.

From:

icon_uk

I thought Natasha HAD been a ballerina?

From:

lieut_kettch

The ballerina backstory was revealed to be part of the brainwashing she underwent as part of the Black Widow project, IIRC.

From:

captainbellman

Having seen this issue's so-called "Ventriloquist"...

Either editorial are making a lot of terrible, across-the-board decisions in terms of what constitutes a villain makeover, or I've been overestimating the good that Simone could do on this title.

I mean, come on. Even *shudder* Peyton Riley would be an improvement over THIS...

From:

lieut_kettch

Such pretty, pretty poses for Dick. I think Nightwing is the only male hero for whom the Hawkeye Initiative won't work.

From:

i_paint_the_sky

I don't read much/any Spiderman but I hear he gets drawn in similar ways. Both him and Nightwing seem to be the heros considered to be drawn using the women's gaze most, at least.

From:

mrstatham

Over-wrought, pathetically melancholic, self-pitying and trying to be deep without properly wanting to tackle the issues in a mature manner? Yep, new52 Batgirl pages, alright.

From:

captainbellman

I know. I saw the title page earlier, wherein she cuts off her Bat-logo. It's all *symbolic* and *meaningful* until you notice that 40% of the rest of the material on her costume is yellow and/or bat-shaped. You sort of want to tell her, "Honey? Everyone knows you're Batgirl. Go the whole nine yards and make a new costume."

And have you SEEN what they've done to the Ventriloquist? They didn't even need to do any making-over this time! Arnold Wesker is alive and well! He's right there in Arkham!

Ugh...what a waste.

Edited Date: 2013-06-08 08:49 am (UTC)

From:

mrstatham

I saw enough of it with the last issue. Seriously - someone with TK powers using a dummy suggests almost more of a 'puppet-master' gimmick or something else entirely as opposed to being in line with the old Ventriloquist gimmick? I mean, I *liked* Peyton Riley - it at lease played into the ongoing story Dini was developing and it was an interesting twist over whether something supernatural was going on with the dummy or whether it was just Peyton - so it was still similar to Wesker, but just different enough (and with him not around) that it was still interesting. But.. Yeah. This Ventriloquist just feels like Simone trying to be cool and edgy and tapping into a contemporary trend (or trends) far, far too late for them to be even remotely relevant.

From:

captainbellman

Really, from the moment I saw the cover I just got the idea that they'd distilled everything that people didn't like about the Harley Quinn Nu52 makeover into an even more insultingly bad character. As with the "Death of the Family" tie-ins, it feels wrong that this is coming from a creative mind I usually esteem so well. I can't help feeling this is just more editorial meddling left, right and centre.

From:

mrstatham

It could be editorial meddling, but I'll be honest in that I started losing faith in Simone right around the time Secret Six started playing to a distinct formula during each storyline (to say nothing of my feelings regarding the resolution of the story with Scandal), and her BOP revival turned out disastrous. Her characterisation of Barbara was terrible there, too, frankly, so.. I don't know. To me, it's either editorial meddling on a grand scale or just a fall from grace or whatever.

From:

captainbellman

Or, even worse, some sort of mixture of both. You're right, SS did become rather dull towards the end...all that stuff about the Hell-Card and the supposed moral quandary, not to mention the end result of "everyone dies except Bane, there's a movie on the way y'know"...it didn't amount to much, did it? Wasn't even all that fun.

From:

icon_uk

See if they had made this character the new Puppeteer (DC had a character by that name since the 1960's, a Green Lantern baddie who also showed up in the New Teen Titans with a memorable cover), then that would have been perfectly fine with me as using telekinesis to make puppets come to life is a cool and legitimately creepy idea, which would really work.

However, it seems to miss the point of the Ventriloquist, which is of Jekyll/Hyde idea crossed with multiple personalities, so you have the pathos of the sad and rather pathetic "proper" personality being abused by their own other personality.

Edited Date: 2013-06-08 12:22 pm (UTC)

From:

mrstatham

Pretty much. Even the Peyton/Scarface pair had the doll being slightly abusive and seemingly controlling her.

The new Ventriloquist would almost qualify as some sort of freaky take on the Toyman, if not the Puppeteer, as you suggest. But it's just very un-Ventriloquist like, to me.

From:

jaybee3

Peyton was also a sympathetic character (with an interesting backstory), just as Arnold Wekser is in the right hands. Both are either seriously deluded and mentally damaged or are really being controlled by a murderous sociopathic puppet. The new Ventriloquist with special super powers? Eh. Not very creative. Or interesting.

From:

yvonmukluk

Well, Summer Glau is/was a ballerina, and she can kick all kinds of ass.

Also, yay to bringing back Oracle! I miss the days when the writers got to control what characters had which identities, rather than having a status quo imposed from above by editorial*.

*Not that editors don't play a vital role in making sure stories turn out right, but I find the trend where editorial impose their vision on stories distressing.

From:

blunderbuss

HOLY SHIT. I've some really good 'casting' done for the Batfamily, but that Roberto Bolle guy IS Dick Grayson in human form. Yow.

From:

nyadnar17

The said thing, they really said thing? Even after all this time I was still expecting to see Cassandra Cain when I read "Batgirl". Maybe this storyline will lead into it.

From:

rainspirit

You mean the sad thing, right?

Cassandra's never going back to the Batcomics. Not under current DC editorial, considering they've all but outright said they're specifically keeping her and Stephanie Brown benched.

Are there really no other characters like her in existing comics?

Edited Date: 2013-06-09 03:45 am (UTC)

From:

bradygirl_12

I've always thought that Dick took ballet lessons and gradually gave them up because of his 'other' sideline. ;) He kept the knowledge of the exercises to help him keep limber but if he wanted to be a great ballet dancer and went all in in practicing and studying, he'd probably be world-famous. :) I did write a fanfic about that a few years ago and people were like, "He would be a dancer!" :)

From:

joetuss

I don't really see nightwing as a dancer.I see him as more of a natural athlete multi sport Bo Jackson type.He just naturally gifted at anything that requires rigorous physical activity and in this case it's heroing.

From:

icon_uk

Ah, but couldn't dance be viewed as the aesthetic wing of athletics? :)

Had never heard of Bo Jackson, but my, he's NICE!

From:

rordulum

Can't be a Bat any more, Babs? Don't worry, after DC's next 'gamechanging' reboot/relaunch/'can't make it any worse than it already is', you probably won't be again.

They'll make a whole new Batgirl, expect everyone to love her, while ignoring Cass and Steph, and then get all pissy with fans who react with a whole lot of 'meh'.

Edited Date: 2013-06-08 10:07 pm (UTC)

From:

rainspirit

Well, considering that they did just kickstart a new Batgirl in the Batman Beyond series, and that got some interesting buzz...

From:

maxisanacorn

The sad this now that Babs has the Batgirl mantle back it sync's with their merchandise, they will NEVER ever EVER let her grow up or change now. She is Batgirl. She will always be Batgirl now, just like Bruce as Batman. Gail saying she could be as good as Oracle, that she has that "in her" will never come to be. Gail is hurting Babs more than she is helping her, I really don't understand the appeal of this book.

I really miss Peyton. She was a great continuation of the mysterious Scarface "thing" is it or isn't it paranormal, the strange sadomasochism. Aside from Gotham Sirens I really adored Dini's Detective run. Peyton was scary but also sort of classy and smart. A lot of the villains in the reboot aren't terribly crafty or smart. They're all monstrous and slasher film, gorn genre stuff.

Really terrible book. How she is raking in 45k purchases a month is beyond me. Gail's writing has been atrocious.

From:

rainspirit

A lot of the villains in the reboot aren't terribly crafty or smart. They're all monstrous and slasher film, gorn genre stuff.

I agree.

"Call me ONE-FACE NOW."

Ghh.

From:

icon_uk

Wasn't that revealed to be Clayface rather than Harvey?

From:

lego_joker

I have no great love for this iteration of the Ventriloquist, but IIRC, Peyton didn't grab my attention a whole lot better.

Dini might have come up with a reasonably interesting concept and backstory for her, but IMO, the execution blew chunks. The last time I tried reading through her backstory, I must have zoned out about two or three times.

For all the good he's done to the Batman franchise, I get the feeling that Dini has simply lost/never quite had the ability to properly pace a story, or deliver exposition without putting readers to sleep - and Dustin Nguyen's art can only help him along so much.

(Arnold Wesker also had the advantage of a unique visual appearance - Batman's rogues gallery isn't hurting for pretty ladies, but I think that Arnold was the only rogue who was over 50 and looked the part.)

That's not to say that Peyton doesn't have potential in and of herself - if someone like, say, Chuck Dixon were writing her dialogue, she could very well have become one of my faves. As it stands? Meh.

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Batgirl 21 has another Nightwing cameo

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